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 (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)

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Who is the MVP?
Hakeem Olajuwon
64%
 64% [ 9 ]
Karl Malone
7%
 7% [ 1 ]
Bill Russell
29%
 29% [ 4 ]
Gary Payton
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Kevin McHale
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Reggie Miller
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Jason Kidd
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Bernard King
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Dwyane Wade
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Paul Pierce
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 14
 

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brownie13
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PostSubject: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:55 pm

(1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)

Matchup Ends Thursday Night

Nick C:

PG: Gary Payton
SG: Dwyane Wade
SF: Bernard King
PF: Kevin McHale
C: Hakeem Olajuwon

BENCH:
PG: Mookie Blaylock
SG: Mitch Richmond
SF: Bobby Jones
PF: Marcus Camby
C: Walt Bellamy


Dub C:

Jason Kidd/Chauncey Billups
Reggie Miller/Dale Ellis
Paul Pierce/Ron Artest
Karl Malone/Dennis Rodman
Bill Russell/Alonzo Mourning
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:57 pm

Nick C
By a little
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:10 pm

Nick C by a hair
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:18 pm

Rayn
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:20 pm

Ryan by a bit
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:30 pm

Bill Russell would definitely hold his own against Hakeem. It's not like Hakeem has the power to overwhelm the Greatest Defensive Center of All Time. If Bill Russell was going to get beat, it'd be by somebody who had a big strength advantage over him.

However, Karl Malone is one of the strongest post players of all time, while McHale is a little thin, as evidenced by his pretty low rebounding numbers for a 6'10" big man. He was a decent shot-blocker, but Malone, just like he did with most opponents, would be able to push his way to where he wanted to go. Malone is by far the better player here. Better passer, scorer, just as good of a shooter, and only slight worse as a defender, though he'd do a pretty good job against McHale.

Bernard King was a great scorer, but his team only made it deep in the playoffs once. He wasn't a great shooter either, with basically no 3-point range and an average mid-range shot. He was only a 73% free throw shooter for his career. Paul Pierce is one of the most versatile small forwards of all time, with the ability to score with and without the ball, and defend a wide variety of players. He's not the most amazing defender ever, but he's a good one, and better than King. He's a much better shooter, and has the strength and speed to keep King out of the lane. Not to mention I have Artest and Rodman coming off the bench.

Dwayne Wade is a better play-maker for his team than Reggie Miller, but he just doesn't have what it takes to chase around Miller for an entire game. He's a decent defender, but Reggie is going to get open looks and knock them down. Wade will get his too, but Reggie's shots won't be affected by good interior defense the way Wade's will.

Gary Payton is a great defender, but he's more of a defender that would stop a player from scoring rather than stop Kidd from making plays for teammates, especially with Pierce, Ellis, Miller, and Billups roaming the perimeter and Rodman and Malone setting pick and roll after pick and roll. Kidd's going to have the ability to see the floor, even with Payton on him. Payton didn't have much range on his jumper, and was never an amazing passer. He was a good passer, but Kidd is much, much better. Throw in that Kidd was an great defender himself, and Kidd wins this match-up.

Off the bench, Chauncey Billups is a proven winner and great all-around point guard. Mookie Blaylock has made just one All Star game in his career. He was a decent defender, but Chauncey is just as good, and better at everything else. Chauncey has the advantage.

Dale Ellis is basically Reggie Miller with better defense and he ability to score inside. He's one of the Greatest 3-Point Shooters of All-Time. 3rd on the all time 3-point shots made list, and 1st among any of the top 15 as far as shooting percentage. Mitch Richmond is a good shooter/scorer as well, but he's not as good as Ellis. It's forgotten that Ellis once average 25 points over 3-seasons with the Sonics, who made the Western-Conference Finals in that span. Richmond made the playoffs just 4 times in his career, and 1 was as a scrub for the 2001 Lakers. He gets overrated because he played on the exciting TMC Warriors.

Ron Artest and Bobby Jones are both amazing defenders. In his prime, Artest was a DPOY. He was also a better offensive player than Jones. He's also more of shut down defender. Jones was more of a great help defender and a good on-ball defender. Artest at his best could shut people down.

There's no better defensive rebounder than Dennis Rodman, nor is there a more versatile great defender. He could defend in the post, or stay out top on point guards, shooting guards and small forwards. Camby is good shot-blocker and rebounder, but as a man-to-man defender he's way overrated. For the most part he gets pushed around if he's not playing help-side defense. Rodman never got pushed around and is both a better defender and rebounder than Camby.

Alonzo Mourning is one of the greatest shot-blockers and interior defenders of all time. Top 10 to a lot of people. He's strong, as well as athletic, which is something not a lot of the NBA's best shot-blockers are. He'd do a good job against Hakeem, let alone Walt Bellamy, who had a couple great years only in the early '60s. Not to mention that Alonzo was 20 point scorer for most of his career until he had kidney problems. Far better player than Bellamy.

Overall I beat Nick's team because my offense is more versatile, my defense is better (also more versatile), and I have better talent and athleticism pretty much top to bottom.

Dub C.
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:31 pm

кιиg αв∂υℓ wrote:
Nick C by a hair

Raza wrote:
Nick C
By a little

read team blurb and make decision?

can't make you change your mind but I can try Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:38 pm

Dub C wrote:
read team blurb and make decision?

can't make you change your mind but I can try Very Happy

Well no duh you would write about how good your team is compared to his...haha

PS, Olajuwon would kill Russell with his post moves. Olajuwon will kill any center in NBA history with his post moves.
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:42 pm

Dub C wrote:
Bill Russell would definitely hold his own against Hakeem. It's not like Hakeem has the power to overwhelm the Greatest Defensive Center of All Time. If Bill Russell was going to get beat, it'd be by somebody who had a big strength advantage over him.

However, Karl Malone is one of the strongest post players of all time, while McHale is a little thin, as evidenced by his pretty low rebounding numbers for a 6'10" big man. He was a decent shot-blocker, but Malone, just like he did with most opponents, would be able to push his way to where he wanted to go. Malone is by far the better player here. Better passer, scorer, just as good of a shooter, and only slight worse as a defender, though he'd do a pretty good job against McHale.

Bernard King was a great scorer, but his team only made it deep in the playoffs once. He wasn't a great shooter either, with basically no 3-point range and an average mid-range shot. He was only a 73% free throw shooter for his career. Paul Pierce is one of the most versatile small forwards of all time, with the ability to score with and without the ball, and defend a wide variety of players. He's not the most amazing defender ever, but he's a good one, and better than King. He's a much better shooter, and has the strength and speed to keep King out of the lane. Not to mention I have Artest and Rodman coming off the bench.

Dwayne Wade is a better play-maker for his team than Reggie Miller, but he just doesn't have what it takes to chase around Miller for an entire game. He's a decent defender, but Reggie is going to get open looks and knock them down. Wade will get his too, but Reggie's shots won't be affected by good interior defense the way Wade's will.

Gary Payton is a great defender, but he's more of a defender that would stop a player from scoring rather than stop Kidd from making plays for teammates, especially with Pierce, Ellis, Miller, and Billups roaming the perimeter and Rodman and Malone setting pick and roll after pick and roll. Kidd's going to have the ability to see the floor, even with Payton on him. Payton didn't have much range on his jumper, and was never an amazing passer. He was a good passer, but Kidd is much, much better. Throw in that Kidd was an great defender himself, and Kidd wins this match-up.

Off the bench, Chauncey Billups is a proven winner and great all-around point guard. Mookie Blaylock has made just one All Star game in his career. He was a decent defender, but Chauncey is just as good, and better at everything else. Chauncey has the advantage.

Dale Ellis is basically Reggie Miller with better defense and he ability to score inside. He's one of the Greatest 3-Point Shooters of All-Time. 3rd on the all time 3-point shots made list, and 1st among any of the top 15 as far as shooting percentage. Mitch Richmond is a good shooter/scorer as well, but he's not as good as Ellis. It's forgotten that Ellis once average 25 points over 3-seasons with the Sonics, who made the Western-Conference Finals in that span. Richmond made the playoffs just 4 times in his career, and 1 was as a scrub for the 2001 Lakers. He gets overrated because he played on the exciting TMC Warriors.

Ron Artest and Bobby Jones are both amazing defenders. In his prime, Artest was a DPOY. He was also a better offensive player than Jones. He's also more of shut down defender. Jones was more of a great help defender and a good on-ball defender. Artest at his best could shut people down.

There's no better defensive rebounder than Dennis Rodman, nor is there a more versatile great defender. He could defend in the post, or stay out top on point guards, shooting guards and small forwards. Camby is good shot-blocker and rebounder, but as a man-to-man defender he's way overrated. For the most part he gets pushed around if he's not playing help-side defense. Rodman never got pushed around and is both a better defender and rebounder than Camby.

Alonzo Mourning is one of the greatest shot-blockers and interior defenders of all time. Top 10 to a lot of people. He's strong, as well as athletic, which is something not a lot of the NBA's best shot-blockers are. He'd do a good job against Hakeem, let alone Walt Bellamy, who had a couple great years only in the early '60s. Not to mention that Alonzo was 20 point scorer for most of his career until he had kidney problems. Far better player than Bellamy.

Overall I beat Nick's team because my offense is more versatile, my defense is better (also more versatile), and I have better talent and athleticism pretty much top to bottom.

Dub C.

LOL.

Biased much?

Amazing. You won at every position.

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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:48 pm

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:51 pm

Nick C wrote:
LOL.

Biased much?

Amazing. You won at every position.


I didn't necessarily say that I won at every position. Obviously I talked up my advantages, because well, it's my team and I want to win. But there's a reason all these guys are on my team. I think they're better than what anyone else has. Why would I talk them down? confused
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:55 pm

Nick C. They seem pretty even overall, but his frontcourt is just insane, and Hakeem will absolutely annihilate Russell.
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:36 pm

Why does these always disappear from activity? :/

Vote.
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:39 pm

Yeah I know.
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:43 pm

Even tho you haven't said it, I'm guessing you're voting for yourself...

Nick C 4, Dub C 3
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:48 pm

Dub C wrote:
Nick C wrote:
LOL.

Biased much?

Amazing. You won at every position.


I didn't necessarily say that I won at every position. Obviously I talked up my advantages, because well, it's my team and I want to win. But there's a reason all these guys are on my team. I think they're better than what anyone else has. Why would I talk them down? confused

I know. I was just joking.

Quote :
But there's a reason all these guys are on my team.

I also remember you trying to peddle off Russell as much as you could.

No takers...

Anyhoo... here are my reasons. I knew I would have to write up a big ol' thing "why I would win" if I faced you...

So...

Russell vs Hakeem... Why would Hakeem need muscle to beat Russell (hey that rhymed!).

He beat Pat Ewing (embarrassed him really). David Robinson (also embarrassed). And played Shaq to a standstill (A whole lotta' muscle... like Wilt), but still swept Orlando in the Finals and never scored under 30pts. He also owned Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he was still a force... That's just the short list. This is all without Russell not being a threat on offense and playing in a league that had very, very few centers that would make it to as starters or bench players. Russell never saw a player in his time like Hakeem.

You seriously overrate Mourning.

He's most likely why you would lose a game than win one. His career is known for it. He's a choker and loses his shit too easy. He could cost you a game.

Bellamy is a Hall of Famer and finished his career avg. 20 and 13. I give Mourning the advantage in defense... but it doesn't mean he's going to shut down Walt.

Plus I can put McHale or Hakeem on him. I have a much more versatile front court than you... I don't get how your team is more versatile than mine.

I can move any of my front court players between PF and C and be offensive threats and defensive threats.

Karl Malone was not a good defender. He had three moves. Flop. Swipe. Or pull. He was also a notorious choker. Karl Malone would get you 30 pts and 10rebs and subsequently lose the game for you on the line or by turning over the ball... which he leads the league all-time in... not a good trait to have when you have so many shot blocker and stls specialist.

McHale has banged against the Pistons, Bulls, Knicks, Philly and was actually a defender.

Unlike Malone, McHale had two to three other great scorers he played with. Malone had... well Hornacek had good games every once and a while.

Oh... and McHale owned Rodman's butt.

Barkley called McHale the hardest person he's ever had to play against on offense and defense.

Who cares if Marcus Camby wasn't a man to man defender. I don't need him to guard Rodman or Russell. Just rebound and block shots while teamed with Hakeem and McHale and Bobby Jones who would lock up man to man in the front court.

I'll give you small forward. But it's only because the combined team of PP and Artest is a solid one and they would compliment each other... and the only D King has is in BernarD... Still he's gonna' get his points too. Bobby Jones would make life hell for Miller, Ellis, Pierce for their points.

Miller... shoots.

That's it. I don't see how he would be able to stop Wade from doing what ever he wants. Plus Wade has a motor and is a solid defensive player. Mitch Richmond wasn't overrated. He was a consistent scorer and an inside outside threat as well a solid defender. And despite what you say, Richmond made five All NBA teams to Ellis' 1... and was the second or third best player at his position behind only Mike and trading with Clyde.

Your kidding yourself by saying Ellis played defense. Seriously that's a joke.

Gary Payton taught Jason Kidd everything he knows... except for shooting... which Kidd is only doing now. One of the best two way point guards ever. Something you can't say about Kidd. Mookie Blaylock was an awesome defender (6x All Defense) and a scorer. Billups is a solid leader, scorer and set up man and I give you the edge over Mookie.

But if I put Gary or Wade on him... Basically your best advantage is outside shooting. Yet I have some of the best perimeter defenders the league has ever seen to go with 4 of the best interior defenders ever in Jones, Hakeem (All-time leader in blocked shots), Camby and McHale.

Gary gave Michael Jordan the worst shooting performance in his career... I can put him at the two and give Miller the same dose of medicine.

I actually have the most versatile players. All but King are defensive players that could score against any defense. All but Bobby Jones are offensive forces.

So for me...

It works like this.

PG: =
SG: Nick
SF: DUB
PF: Nick
C: Nick

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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:00 pm

Nick C wrote:
Dub C wrote:
But there's a reason all these guys are on my team.

I also remember you trying to peddle off Russell as much as you could.

No takers...

It's not because I think he's no good...it's just because I don't really like having players I've never actually gotten to watch in these draft games. I like having a team that I've seen play and like.

Nick C wrote:
Anyhoo... here are my reasons. I knew I would have to write up a big ol' thing "why I would win" if I faced you...

Hey me too. I saw the bracket and knew I'd face you. lol!

And for the record, this is what I have:

PG: Slight edge to me (Kidd=Payton, Billups > Mookie)
SG: Even (Best Shooting Ever = Good Playmaking)
SF: Edge to me (Good size and can do just about everything on the court)
PF: Slight edge to me (Malone > McHale, Rodman > Camby)
C: Edge to you (Olajuwon > Russell, Mourning > Bellamy)


Last edited by Dub C on Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:01 pm

Nick..easy
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:13 pm

Not so easy

Center and forward go to nick
SF goes to dub
SG goes to nick c
PG is close...but Ill give it to dub.

Im sticking with Nick c i think
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:05 pm

5-3 Nick C...everybody vote! You don't even have to be part of the draft game, just vote! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:48 pm

So close pale

PG: Dub
SG: Nick
SF: Close
PF: Close
C: Close

I'll say Nick
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:54 pm

umm..

im going with..


DUB C (SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE)
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:04 am

no mo votes?
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:20 am

Raza wrote:
Dub C wrote:
read team blurb and make decision?

can't make you change your mind but I can try Very Happy

Well no duh you would write about how good your team is compared to his...haha

PS, Olajuwon would kill Russell with his post moves. Olajuwon will kill any center in NBA history with his post moves.

P.S,Russell would held his own against anyone,definitely he would slow him
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PostSubject: Re: (1) Nick C V. Dub C (14)   Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:30 am

Dub C

Russell vs Hakeem:Sure,Hakeem beat a whole number of great players like Ewing,Robinson and Kareem.He did a nice job on Shaq but I'd give the edge to Russell,he would not only would held his own against Hakeem but also find ways to contribute with his defense

Karl Malone vs Kevin McHale:Karl,he would beast up against Kevin..no doubt

Bernard King vs Pierce,close but i give the edge to King

Wade vs Reggie,i call it a tie.It's a matter of who would score more points between these 2,he would win the match up

Kidd vs Payton,close but Kidd.Remember,The Glove was the best defender suit for Kidd but i still see Kidd somehow,outmatching that and on defense,he would be fine against the Glove..

Overall,Dub C..



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