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 Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?

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Blake Griffin or Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
56%
 56% [ 14 ]
Kevin Love
44%
 44% [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 25
 

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PostSubject: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:35 pm

Who do you think is having the better year? and who do you think deserves and All-Star Game appearance more right now?, and based on this year alone who'd you rather have?

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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:35 pm

Me personally I'm going Kevin Love

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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:37 pm

Love. Incredible rebounder, solid post game, great passer. Griffin might be flashier, but Love is better.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:40 pm

Kevin love...most definetly
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:40 pm

I'm going Kevin Love. The only thing Blake has on Love is athletcism and passing. Love grabs rebounds with his timing, not his hops, and has range all the way out to the three point line. He has better defense than Griffin and is just a more all around big man.

Blake Griffin might be the story of the year so far besides Miami, but Love is quietly getting his own..I'd go Love on both of the other questions.

But Griffin might be in the All-Star game over Love since the ASG is for fun, and Griffin is light years ahead on Love in putting on a show...
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:05 pm

If i was making a team tomorrow I'd take Griffin.

Love is prolly the most all-around of the two tho.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:37 am

Kevin Love

He was the T'Wolves best player last season and he was coming off the bench.

What does that tell y
ou?
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:43 am

Raza wrote:
I'm going Kevin Love. The only thing Blake has on Love is athletcism and passing. Love grabs rebounds with his timing, not his hops, and has range all the way out to the three point line. He has better defense than Griffin and is just a more all around big man.

Blake Griffin might be the story of the year so far besides Miami, but Love is quietly getting his own..I'd go Love on both of the other questions.

But Griffin might be in the All-Star game over Love since the ASG is for fun, and Griffin is light years ahead on Love in putting on a show...

My friend, at least you are not retarded.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:15 am

I'm the only one choosing Blake?

There are some things you must remember about the Timberwolves, before you take Love's numbers simply for what they are. Minnesota play at the quickest pace in the NBA, and because they do not shoot the ball very well, they also miss a ton of shots. That allows for a lot of chances at offensive rebounds. Another thing to look at is the fact that just 4 of his teammates have more than 100 rebounds this season. Those four players combine for 611 rebounds on the season and here are the players and their season averages:

Michael Beasley = 6.0
Darko Milicic = 5.2
Wesley Johnson = 3.0
Corey Brewer = 2.9

Clearly, the team around Love is a terrible rebounding team. Even the Toronto Raptors (minus Reggie Evans) are a better rebounding team.

Now, let's look at the Clippers. They play at a league average pace and make more of their shots. They have more players with at least 100 rebounds on the season and their top 4 other than Griffin (not including Kaman) still equal the amount of rebounds grabbed by the 4 Timberwolves listed above. The five players with 100 rebounds per game averages:

Deandre Jordan = 6.9
Al Farouq Aminu = 3.7
Ryan Gomes = 3.6
Eric Gordon = 3.2
Eric Bledsoe = 3.1

Now, both teams have a couple guys that average more rebounds than some of these players, but haven't played in enough games to have 100 boards for the season. For the Timberwolves:

Anthony Toliver = 4.0
Martell Webster = 3.4

For the Clippers:

Chris Kaman = 7.1
Brian Cook = 3.1

Now, this doesn't exactly show that Love isn't a better rebounder than Griffin, and he very well might be. It does however show that the difference in rebounding isn't nearly as great as the raw numbers would indicate.

Rebounding advantage: Love

As far as offense, something none of you have really considered is the fact that Love struggles to score inside, and that's definitely reflected in his low shooting percentage. Here are the big men (20 games played, 20+ minutes per game) that shoot a worse percentage inside than Kevin Love:

Al Harrington
Ersan Ilyasova
Marcus Camby
Brook Lopez
Ben Wallace
Chuck Hayes
Channing Frye
Andrea Bargnani

For the most part, these players are regarded as having a bad inside game (or no offense whatsoever). Not good company. The reason this is important is when a team has big men that can score inside, it opens up the floor for his teammates. When they score from the perimeter, there's no reason for the opposition to close down into the paint and it's tougher to get open shots.

Griffin is nearly the opposite. Nobody in the NBA scores at the rim as many times per game as Blake. He also shoots a very high percentage at the rim (68% to Kevin's 58%). What's actually surprising is that Griffin also shoots a better percentage from mid-range (2 point shots not at the rim). Blake shoots 41% on nearly 9 shots a game while Love is just 36% on 7 shots a game.

Blake has an enourmous advantage as a post scorer and has even shown to be a better mid-range scorer as Love. What Love does have on Griffin is the three-point shooting, and while that is a great skill to have, as a big man it isn't as effective as you'd like it to be, especially since he STILL shoots worse from everywhere else. Clearly, that shot hasn't become enough of a threat for Love that defenses actually try to stop it.

Another advantage for Blake is how many times he gets to the free-throw line. He averages more than double the attempts (8.4 to 4.1) from charity stripe than Love. It's such a large difference that even though Love shoots 20% better, he still makes more than 1.5 shots less than Griffin per game.

Offensive advantage: Griffin

Defensively, Kevin Love is terrible. He's not tall, he's not long, he's not quick, and he's not a good leaper. He averages less than a 1 total block and steal per game. Adding on to all of that is the fact that he isn't a physical one-one-one defender, which is something Griffin has already proven to be. Griffin isn't a monster defensively, and is probably much more average than anything else on that end, but he's still much better defensively than Love, who is terrible.

Defensive advantage: Griffin

Clearly, I'm going with Blake.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:05 am

I choose Blake Griffin too
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:15 am

am i the only one who thinks dub c thought too hard on that post?
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:38 pm

You guys know I'm going to pick Blake... Ryan already did the explaining Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:06 pm

his explanation wasnt relevant IMO..
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:07 pm

Rock bamas! wrote:
am i the only one who thinks dub c thought too hard on that post?

Nope. I thought the same thing. Also, that whole thing about how Love's teammates are terrible rebounders...uh, ever consider they might not get too many rebounds because Love grabs so many???
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:35 pm

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:
Rock bamas! wrote:
am i the only one who thinks dub c thought too hard on that post?

Nope. I thought the same thing. Also, that whole thing about how Love's teammates are terrible rebounders...uh, ever consider they might not get too many rebounds because Love grabs so many???

Exactly (talking about your last sentence). And also, Ryan, you're wrong about Blake Griffin being a better mid-range shooter. A mid-range shot is not classified as a "shot not at the rim", it's more or less a shot taken outside of the paint. So according to this, Kevin Love scores 7.5 points a game from mid-range at a 43% eFG rate, while Blake scores 7.0 points a game from mid-range at a 41.5% eFG rate. Even though it's close, Kevin Love is a marginally better shooter from mid-range.

And you were talking about how Kevin Love grabs so many boards because there aren't any other rebounders on the T-Wolves. Actually, the T-Wolves AND Clippers, although probably boosted by Griffin and Love's rebounding stats individually, are two of the top 5 teams in the NBA in terms of RPG. The Clippers as a team grab 72.3% of the defensive rebounds available. For comparison, the Wolves grab 72.1% of the defensive rebounds available. Both teams are elite rebounding teams and while they may not be at the top of the league without Griffin and Love respectively, the point is, both of them grab an amazing amount of rebounds on two of the best rebounding teams in the NBA.

But let's look at those numbers a little more in depth. I just talked about the Clippers and T-Wolves grabbing 72% of the defensive boards available, but what about Love and Griffin individually? Love has grabbed 387 of the 1,293 defensive rebounds available, for a 29.9 DRB%. Griffin has grabbed 306 of the 1,239 defensive rebounds available, for a 24.7 DRB%. Pace does play a factor in the boards available, but that argument is pretty pointless considering that Love and Griffin have had pretty much the same amount of chances to grab a defensive rebound.

Look, Griffin is an infinitely better defender and finisher, but in my opinion, Love's rebounding stats aren't inflated, and if they are, it's not by much. Love is a naturally talented rebounder, but so is Griffin. Griffin will more than likely go on to have a better career, but as of now, I think Kevin Love is a little bit better than Griffin although it is VERY close. I understand completely if you think Griffin is better as it is a valid argument, but in my opinion, Love is a tiny bit better.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:47 pm

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:
Rock bamas! wrote:
am i the only one who thinks dub c thought too hard on that post?

Nope. I thought the same thing. Also, that whole thing about how Love's teammates are terrible rebounders...uh, ever consider they might not get too many rebounds because Love grabs so many???

Yup. And that's not it. Love's a good rebounder, but he looks so much better next to Milicic (poor rebounding C), Tolliver, Pekovic, and Beasley. And I still gave him the rebounding advantage... :/

The biggest issue for me with Love is his offensive game is ineffective when it comes to a balanced offense. I made that clear, and since I was the only one to go with Griffin, I figured I ought to show some statistical evidence as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:52 pm

Rock bamas! wrote:
his explanation wasnt relevant IMO..

Well...yours wasn't there at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:15 pm

None=better than a pointless one
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:53 pm

This season?

Im choosing Love. His rebounding has been OFF THE CHARTS!
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:22 pm

Rock bamas! wrote:
None=better than a pointless one

No because something > nothing

And I'd love for you to show me how it was pointless. Maybe a bit long, but definitely not pointless.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:35 pm

Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:00 pm

Yo Adrien! wrote:
Rock bamas! wrote:
None=better than a pointless one

No because something > nothing

And I'd love for you to show me how it was pointless. Maybe a bit long, but definitely not pointless.
i'd take no bag over a bag with shit in it...long and pointless..that what makes it so stupid
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:02 pm

Rock bamas! wrote:
Yo Adrien! wrote:
Rock bamas! wrote:
None=better than a pointless one

No because something > nothing

And I'd love for you to show me how it was pointless. Maybe a bit long, but definitely not pointless.
i'd take no bag over a bag with shit in it...long and pointless..that what makes it so stupid

I'm really not even sure you read it...whatever. You didn't even say what was irrelevant about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:14 pm

i read every word in it..im on my cell that y im not going into it
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PostSubject: Re: Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?   Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:25 am

Both are definitely All-Star talents for the next decade ahead...it's acceptable opinion from the two sides

The real question is,who will enter this year's All-Star game...
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