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 NBA MVP: Who's deserving?

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Who is the MVP?
Derrick Rose
57%
 57% [ 13 ]
Dwight Howard
13%
 13% [ 3 ]
Kobe Bryant
26%
 26% [ 6 ]
Other
4%
 4% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 23
 

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PostSubject: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

As the NBA season winds down, the MVP award has become the biggest talking point for fans around the NBA. Those who have paid attention to public opinion should know by now that the Chicago Bulls' Derrick Rose is close to running away with his first MVP.

Rose's Bulls have built up a two game lead on the 2nd place Boston Celtics, and are now looking forward to home court advantage throughout the Eastern Conference playoffs. His personal resume boasts averages of nearly 25 points and 8 assists (24.9 and 7.9 to be exact) per game, making him his teams' clear top offensive weapon.

The Bulls have exceeded expectations this season by already winning 12 more games than they did all of last season. Most people picked the Bulls to finish somewhere between 3rd and 6th in the East, behind the Eastern Conference favorite Boston Celtics and Miami Heat. Many even picked them to finish 2nd in the Central Division to the Milwaukee Bucks, who are currently 9th in the East with a record of 29-43.

Rose's increase in production has been a big reason for the Bulls' improvement this season. The young guard has seen increases in nearly every statistical category, most notably in his free throw and 3-point percentages. On top of all that, he's missed just one game all season to help lead a team that has only had it's starting front court together for 24 of its 72 games (Carlos Boozer has missed 23 games and Joakim Noah has missed 31).

So, he's obviously a very strong candidate for the MVP. But is he the only deserving candidate? Is he even the most deserving?

As Rose's MVP candidacy has grown in strength, its biggest flaws have grown more apparent. It happens with every player that's thrust further into the spotlight, and it's no different for this years' MVP front-runner.

The most prominent criticisms he's received are those about his defense and field goal percentage. While good defense is not usually important for an MVP candidate, many see it as a larger negative for Rose because defense is the reason his team is so good.

Chicago is the NBA's top defensive unit in points allowed per possession, thanks to a new defensive system put into place by rookie head coach Tom Thibodeau. Rose is perhaps the weakest link on defense, meaning that he has little impact on what the Bulls' do best.

What he excels at is offense, where Chicago is ranked just 12th in points per possession. That's better than just one of the NBA's top eight teams, ahead of only the Celtics, who rank three spots lower at 15th. Of the remaining elite teams, only Orlando is outside the top six, at 10th. So unlike many of the other teams featuring MVP candidates, the Bulls rely much more heavily on their defense to win games.

Rose's detractors also point to his field goal percentage as evidence he's not the most valuable part of his team. He's shooting just 43.9 percent on the season, worst of anyone in the Chicago's starting lineup. It's also lower than any player on the Bulls' current roster other than backup point guard C.J. Watson.

Over the previous two seasons, Derrick Rose averaged a 48.3 percent field goal percentage, meaning he's seen a nearly 5 percent drop in 2010-11. Conventional wisdom would suggest Rose isn't playing better this season at all. It would actually suggest that while he's seen an increase in his offensive role, his play might be worse than it was last season.

However, field goal percentage isn't the whole story. Last season, Rose attempted less than one shot from beyond the arc per game. This year, the Chicago star has put up an average of almost 5. It's important to remember that 3-point shots go in a whole lot less often than 2-point shots. However, because they're worth 150 percent more points than the closer shot, shooting 33.3 percent from deep is equal to making 50 percent on classic field goals.

Rose has actually hit 33.2 percent of his 3-point shots, so while they're lowering his overall field goal percentage, he's still scoring almost a point per shot from beyond the arc. Effective field goal percentage is a measure that makes up for the difference in shots by counting 3-point shots for what they're actually worth. While Rose's field goal percentage has dropped dramatically this season, his effective field goal percentage has dropped just less than 2 percent (49.5 to 47.Cool.

When you factor in getting to the line more often and making a higher percentage of his free throws, Rose's scoring efficiency is actually higher than it was in either of his first two seasons. His 54.0 true shooting percentage, a number that evenly counts all forms of scoring, is more than 1.5 percent better than his average from 2008-09 and 2009-10.

Still, both his effective and true shooting percentages are slightly below league average. This is of note because each of Rose’s biggest MVP competitors rank ahead of him in both categories

But Bulls' have still seen a big increase in their team's offensive efficiency, despite Rose’s average numbers. Chicago was in the bottom 3 of all NBA teams last season in points per possession. Their average of 100.8 points per 100 possessions (according to hoopdata.com) was worst of any playoff team. Chicago’s 105.2 scoring average this season is good for the biggest increase of any team this season.

Rose isn't the only reason for that increase, but his increased role at the point guard position clearly hasn't hindered the offense anywhere near as much as his critics might lead you to believe. Chicago added former Utah Jazz teammates Kyle Korver and Carlos Boozer in the off-season, both of which were big offensive upgrades over their predecessors (current Bull backup power forward Taj Gibson and ex-Bull shooting guard Flip Murray). Starting small forward Luol Deng has increased his range and shooting touch, making more 3-point shots this season than he had in his first six.

Rose has definitely contributed a lot to the Bulls' success this season, and there isn't much argument to whether or not he's deserving of the award. But before the voters decide to hand over the hardware, an even more important question must be asked: Is he the player most deserving of the award?

His number of competitors has dwindled down to single just a few, but that doesn't mean their resumes are any less worthy. Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James are still receiving consideration with less than 10 games to play.

Foremost of the trio is Dwight Howard. His Orlando Magic trail the Bulls by 6.5 games in the standings after taking a step back from last season's 59 wins. But few players play such a large role for any team in the NBA, let alone one of the league's elite. No other player in the league has been as equally important on offense and defense as Howard.

Arguably the best defender in the NBA because of his ability to defend the paint, the Magic center is averaging 2.4 blocks and a career high 1.3 steals to go along with his 23.1 points and 14.2 rebounds. His 60.2 percent field goal shooting is second in the league and more than 7 percentage points better than the next best player averaging 20 points or more (Dirk Nowitzki at 52.9).

It's been a season of big changes for Orlando, but somehow Howard has found a way to play better despite how his team has floundered at times. The Magic shipped out their 2nd and 3rd leading scorers from last season (Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis) just 25 games into the season. They also gave up their backup center and best perimeter defender (Marcin Gortat and Mickael Pietrus) in that blockbuster trade. In return, they re-acquired 2008-09 playoff hero Hedo Turkoglu, along with three-point shooting specialist Jason Richardson, struggling former All-Star guard Gilbert Arenas, and seldom used Earl Clark.

Orlando has faced struggles both before and after the trade. They were 16-9 at the time of the move, but had lost 5 of 6 games. Post trade, they lost their first 3 games to fall to 16-12. They've gone 31-14 since, but have still struggled at times, even losing 4 out of 6 games during a stretch in March.

Dwight Howard has been "Superman" for the Magic since the start of January. He's averaged 24.6 points and 15.1 rebounds on 63.0 percent shooting from the field in 2011. Howard has been the driving force behind the Magic all year long, and it's possible that no one in the NBA can claim as much credit for his teams wins as Howard. He's helped lead his team to top 10 ranks in both offensive (10th) and defensive (3rd) efficiency, and the Magic remain one of the league's elite teams.

It seems the only arguments against Howard are his team's record and his free throw shooting. Considering he gets to the line more than anyone else in the league, it's important that he make his free throws. But despite his poor percentage, his free throw shooting would still be good for the best offensive efficiency in the NBA (his 58.7 free throw percentage translates to a points per possession rating higher than the Nuggets league-leading mark).

More importantly, even though the Magic are 2nd in their division and 10 games back of the NBA-best San Antonio Spurs, they are still considered to be among the league's elite. They're also virtually a lock to eclipse the all-important 50-win mark before the end of the season, needing to win just 3 of their last 9 games.

All of this cultivates in a very strong MVP candidacy for the NBA's top "Superman." Nobody puts in the work on both sides of the ball like Howard, who is playing a career high in minutes per game despite missing just 3 games all season (2 to illness, 1 to suspension). He's unarguably been the top big man all season long.

Dwight Howard is considered the NBA's top big man, but Kobe Bryant is considered its best overall player. He's finished in the top 4 in MVP voting every year since 2004-2005, and his only win came in 2007-08.

Bryant's Lakers currently own the league's 3rd best record at 52-20, only a half-game back of the Bulls and 5 games back of the NBA-leading Spurs. They are however, 14-1 since the All-Star break.

The "Black Mamba" has played hurt all season, and his injuries have limited him to less than 34 minutes per game, his least minutes played since his sophomore season. Despite the struggles, he's managed to lead the NBA in points scored per minute, while still putting up 25.1 points per game.

Arguably the league's most well-rounded player, Kobe's averages of 5.2 rebounds and 4.8 assists rank him as one of just three players to average 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 4 assists.

One of the biggest factors giving Kobe the edge over Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose is leadership. Bryant has become the unquestioned leader of the Lakers over the past 7 years, and it's his fire and will that has the Lakers playing their best basketball of the season since the All-Star break.

During the Lakers' 15-1 stretch, fans have been treated to a lot more of Kobe's playoff "scowl," the facial expression most associate with Kobe being locked into a game. It's been clear to those watching that the extra fire that he's brought to the table recently is one of the biggest reasons behind the Lakes Show's better play.

Some argue that his numbers aren't as good this season, and it'd be hard to give the MVP to a player who plays with what many consider the best front court in the NBA. But something that a lot of people don't realize is that Kobe has the ability to give the Lakers whatever it is they lack.

For example, the Lakers are 10-2 (.833) in the second game of back-to-backs, giving them the best winning percentage of any team in the NBA. Typically these are the games even the best teams lose more often due to fatigue, but the Lakers have actually been better. In those games, Kobe averages 28.3 points (season average of 25.1) on 52.4 percent shooting (45.5), 42.1 percent 3-point shooting (32.4), to go with 6.1 rebounds (5.0) and 5.0 assists (4.Cool all while playing exactly the same amount of minutes per game he has the entire season. Needless to say, that’s one of the most impressive improvements of any player in the league.

So while Kobe’s numbers may not be as great as they once were, he can still light it up when he’s needed. He’s showed that ability this past week with his clutch play against Portland Trailblazers, season high 42 points and 12 rebounds in a near triple double in a triple-overtime win over the Phoenix Suns, and 30 points games in wins over the Los Angeles Clippers and New Orleans Hornets.

So it wouldn’t be wise to count out Kobe for the MVP if the Lakers finish the season with only 1 or 2 losses after the All-Star break. Leadership is always an important factor in winning, and it’s clear that he has a decisive edge over Rose and Howard in those categories. Another important thing to note: He’s managed to play in every game this year.

These three candidates rank the highest, but there are still other cases to be made for MVP. LaMarcus Aldridge in Portland has quietly been having one of the most productive seasons in the NBA.

Forced to increase production because of a major knee injury to star guard Brandon Roy, Aldridge has put up career-high marks in every major statistical category, including scoring efficiency. Despite being left off the All-Star team, he’s continued to carry the injury-riddled Trailblazers to a respectable playoff record of 42-31.

Since Roy re-injured his knee in the middle of December and left Portland’s starting lineup for good, Aldridge has put up MVP-worthy numbers. Since December 15th, Aldridge has averaged 24.5 points, 9.0 rebounds, on 52.5 percent shooting.

However, he’s not the only player in Portland that’s stepped up in Roy’s absence. Sophomore guard Wesley Mathews has filled in for the All-Star shooting guard admirably. Even with the contributions of Aldridge and Mathews, the Trailblazers still find themselves the 6th seed in the West. Ultimately, that’s what keeps Aldridge from having a real chance to win the MVP.

Then there’s the issue of LeBron James. Having won the past two MVP awards with the Cleveland Cavaliers, he certainly has to be in contention. Not really, though.
For all his stats and impressive plays this season, King James essentially lost his only shot at MVP in November. The Heat were 9-8 and all chances of surpassing either of his teams’ win totals in Cleveland were out the window.

He’s now playing with Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, one an All-Star the last 6 seasons, and the other a former Finals MVP. For him to win the MVP, his team would have had to win more games than the one he played for in Cleveland, which many feel were ultimately carried by his efforts alone.

Just like Kevin Garnett in Boston in 2008, and anyone on the Pistons the past decade, playing on a team where there is no certain best player or leader, or on one with another potential MVP candidate, makes winning the award very difficult.

So even if LeBron’s stats and back-to-back MVPs do warrant a look, it’s easy to see he traded that possibility in when he took his talents to Miami.

The same idea eliminates Wade from contention, even though he plays for the same team he did last season.

The other top teams don’t really have a true candidate for MVP. Dirk Nowitzki has missed 9 games for the Dallas Mavericks, and voters have learned not to give him the benefit of the doubt since he won the award in 2007.

The Celtics have no single best player this year. Rajon Rondo is averaging a double-double in points and rebounds, Paul Pierce is their leading scorer, and Garnett is still one of the best defensive players this year. They’re also closing the season on a very average note the same way they did last season, losing the Eastern Conference lead to the Bulls.

Tim Duncan has long been considered the Spurs’ best player, but he was putting up career lows in points and rebounds even before suffering the ankle injury expected to keep him limited until the playoffs. Parker and Ginobili are having solid seasons, but neither is worthy of an MVP.

So which player is most deserving? It’s got to be Dwight Howard. His numbers speak for themselves. He’s by far the biggest reason for the Magic still being a 50-win team. Kevin Garnett put up similar numbers in 2003-04 and ran away with the MVP that year. Granted, his team was the best in the West, but it was by only 1 game, and the second place team had the reigning back-to-back MVP (Tim Duncan).

Dwight’s team hasn’t been the best in the East, but let’s go back to the last time a big man has been so dominant offensively and defensively. Hakeem Olajuwon won the award in 1993-94, when he posted totals of 27 points, 11 rebounds, 3.7 blocks, and 1.6 steals. His team did not have the best record in the NBA, but the numbers were impossible to argue with.

Consider that the pace of play that season was higher than it is in the NBA now, and that Olajuwon played 41 minutes per game. Big men were also allowed much more leeway defensively. Dwight’s numbers certainly are worthy of comparison to the Hakeem.

Nobody has impacted both sides of the ball the way Olajuwon did when he played. He was often both the best offensive player and defensive player on the court. You can say the same about Dwight this year. So if all the numbers and tape were not enough to convince you of Dwight being the most deserving MVP candidate, then that should be.

But the NBA MVP is not based on who truly deserves it, and it doesn’t always go to the most deserving player. Since the 1988-89, the MVP has gone to a top-2 NBA team 20 times. The one exception is Steve Nash in 2005-2006. The Suns did actually receive the 2nd seed in the West for winning the Pacific division, but he essentially won that award for being MVP the previous season.

Additionally, the MVP has been a conference champion all but 3 times in the last 21 years. With that in mind, the MVP has become Derrick Rose’s to lose. His team currently holds the second best record in the NBA, and the best record in the East. He is the Bulls’ best player, and therefore the favorite for MVP.

The only way he could lose his hold on the award is to allow the Bulls to drop out of 1st place in the East. If either Boston or Miami finish ahead of Chicago in the standings, we could see the MVP go to someone else.

The most likely second candidate is Kobe Bryant. Both he and the Lakers are finishing the season strong, and closing in on the 1st place Spurs. Should they catch or pass San Antonio, and the Bulls fall out of 1st in the East, Kobe would become the likely MVP. It’s important to note that the Lakers having the best record in the NBA wouldn’t be enough reason to switch their vote to Kobe if Chicago maintains their home-court advantage in the Eastern Conference.

In a final scenario, Dwight Howard might have the slimmest of chances to win the award. If neither the Lakers or Bulls finish 1st in their conference, it would most likely come down to Howard and the Bulls’ point guard. The question is how many games would the Magic have to gain on Chicago for Dwight to win over voters. However deserving, voters have always found it difficult to vote for players on teams lower in the standings.

No matter who wins, the league will still end up with a deserving MVP. The voters may have gotten it wrong in the public’s eye once again, but that’s something that’s become typical of the MVP.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:49 am

Yo Adrien! wrote:
3-peat wrote:
Lol. Kobe wins it if the Lakers win every game till playoffs. But Rose wins it if L.A losses once. Howard been solid even tho the GM shipped half his teammates. He's easily the most underrated MVP contender. But then again MVP voters are IDEIOTS. Kobe's been robbed left n right.

not robbed front and back though?

Kobe Bryant was never robbed, he was never the MVP of anything, and the 2008 NBA MVP was stupid as CP3 should have won.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:29 pm

King wrote:
Yo Adrien! wrote:
3-peat wrote:
Lol. Kobe wins it if the Lakers win every game till playoffs. But Rose wins it if L.A losses once. Howard been solid even tho the GM shipped half his teammates. He's easily the most underrated MVP contender. But then again MVP voters are IDEIOTS. Kobe's been robbed left n right.

not robbed front and back though?

Kobe Bryant was never robbed, he was never the MVP of anything, and the 2008 NBA MVP was stupid as CP3 should have won.

Shut the fuck up..you dont know shit..you think your right most of the time but that is bullshit..im sorry to sound like an asswhole..but kobe deserved the mvp

2008..and the year he averaged 35 ppg..he was there most valuable player..without him..lakers wouldnt have made it to the playoffs
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:46 pm

honestly though.. when/how was Kobe ever robbed of an MVP?

His first 4 years, he simply wasn't good enough to win MVP.

After that when he started putting up MVP type numbers and the Lakers were winning, he was playing with Shaq. Another guy who was putting up MVP numbers. Many believed that Shaq was the best player on that team. So how would Kobe be MVP of the league when he isn't even the best player on his team? But That's why Shaq also didn't win MVP in those seasons... because he had Kobe.

when Shaq left, the lakers missed the playoffs the season after. Should Kobe really win the MVP when the lakers didn't even make the playoffs? No.

The 2 seasons after that, the lakers made the playoffs... but they only won 45 and 42 games in those seasons and finishing with the 7th seed in both of those seasons. Good enough to win MVP? No. Even if he did bring them there by himself.

The last 2 seasons, LBJ clearly deserved the MVP.

So when was kobe ever really robbed?



Last edited by Bulls N' Bears on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:47 pm

Yo Adrien! wrote:
3-peat wrote:
Lol. Kobe wins it if the Lakers win every game till playoffs. But Rose wins it if L.A losses once. Howard been solid even tho the GM shipped half his teammates. He's easily the most underrated MVP contender. But then again MVP voters are IDEIOTS. Kobe's been robbed left n right.

not robbed front and back though?

huh? lol

John knows what it is.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:29 pm

Bulls N' Bears wrote:
honestly though.. when/how was Kobe ever robbed of an MVP?

His first 4 years, he simply wasn't good enough to win MVP.

After that when he started putting up MVP type numbers and the Lakers were winning, he was playing with Shaq. Another guy who was putting up MVP numbers. Many believed that Shaq was the best player on that team. So how would Kobe be MVP of the league when he isn't even the best player on his team? But That's why Shaq also didn't win MVP in those seasons... because he had Kobe.

when Shaq left, the lakers missed the playoffs the season after. Should Kobe really win the MVP when the lakers didn't even make the playoffs? No.

The 2 seasons after that, the lakers made the playoffs... but they only won 45 and 42 games in those seasons and finishing with the 7th seed in both of those seasons. Good enough to win MVP? No. Even if he did bring them there by himself.

The last 2 seasons, LBJ clearly deserved the MVP.

So when was kobe ever really robbed?


Subtract kobe off the lakers in those 45 win seasons and youll see how valuable..remember this isnt about stats..this is about how valuable he is.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:41 pm

Kobe Bryant:Mvp.

Who is more valuable..You tell me.

________________________________________________________________________
Kobe for the lakers
His average
35 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg.

His team:
2nd best..
14.8 ppg lamar odom.
That is there second option.One of there top players was KWAME BROWN..he isnt valuable on the bobcats.His team only one when he went nuts.he scored 81..61.60 millions of times..just so his team could win when he went nuts..without him the would suck.
____________________________________________________________________________
Steve Nash for the suns
His average
18 ppg
10 assists
3 rebounds.
(not bad stats..but kobe had 15 more ppg.2 more rebounds)

His team:
2nd best
22 ppg
11 rpg

His team was good..shawn marion was a big part..and without nash..that wwould be a playoff team...not as good but a playoff team.he was as valuable askobne.
____________________________________________________________________________

They needed Nash,but not as much as they needed kobe..without kobe there team would be lucky to get 10 points..and without nash,that isnt a bad team.

Itscalled:MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

So unless they change the name..kobe should have one.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:11 pm

John wrote:
Bulls N' Bears wrote:
honestly though.. when/how was Kobe ever robbed of an MVP?

His first 4 years, he simply wasn't good enough to win MVP.

After that when he started putting up MVP type numbers and the Lakers were winning, he was playing with Shaq. Another guy who was putting up MVP numbers. Many believed that Shaq was the best player on that team. So how would Kobe be MVP of the league when he isn't even the best player on his team? But That's why Shaq also didn't win MVP in those seasons... because he had Kobe.

when Shaq left, the lakers missed the playoffs the season after. Should Kobe really win the MVP when the lakers didn't even make the playoffs? No.

The 2 seasons after that, the lakers made the playoffs... but they only won 45 and 42 games in those seasons and finishing with the 7th seed in both of those seasons. Good enough to win MVP? No. Even if he did bring them there by himself.

The last 2 seasons, LBJ clearly deserved the MVP.

So when was kobe ever really robbed?


Subtract kobe off the lakers in those 45 win seasons and youll see how valuable..remember this isnt about stats..this is about how valuable he is.

Kobe didn't deserve MVP those seasons, period.

Take Wade off the heat the past few years, and the heat don't make the playoffs. So was he robbed? Was Tmac robbed on the magic? was pierce robbed? were a shit load of other players robbed?

if you wanna go by your logic, 2-3 players are robbed every single season.

a guy on a 7th seed team should not win MVP.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:24 pm

King wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Derrick Rose.
The Bulls made a significant turnaround and that can be primarily attributed to Rose.

You can make a case for Howard, Bryant, Nowitzki, James, Wade, Ginobili but the fact that the Bulls have improved drastically (and Rose himself), makes me think he is the clear cut winner for MVP honours this year.

You forgot the addition of Tom Thibodeau, Bench-play, Luol Deng's improvement on both ends, and the Bulls defense.

No I didn't.

Of course those are factors to take into consideration but the fact of the matter is, Rose is their main man. Take him off the roster and how would you think the Bulls would fare?
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:22 am

Destiny wrote:
King wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Derrick Rose.
The Bulls made a significant turnaround and that can be primarily attributed to Rose.

You can make a case for Howard, Bryant, Nowitzki, James, Wade, Ginobili but the fact that the Bulls have improved drastically (and Rose himself), makes me think he is the clear cut winner for MVP honours this year.

You forgot the addition of Tom Thibodeau, Bench-play, Luol Deng's improvement on both ends, and the Bulls defense.

No I didn't.

Of course those are factors to take into consideration but the fact of the matter is, Rose is their main man. Take him off the roster and how would you think the Bulls would fare?

Those are the main factors to the Bulls' success, and the only reason why Derrick Rose is in the MVP conversation is that the Bulls are peaking earlier than people expected.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:35 pm

Bulls N' Bears wrote:
John wrote:
Bulls N' Bears wrote:
honestly though.. when/how was Kobe ever robbed of an MVP?

His first 4 years, he simply wasn't good enough to win MVP.

After that when he started putting up MVP type numbers and the Lakers were winning, he was playing with Shaq. Another guy who was putting up MVP numbers. Many believed that Shaq was the best player on that team. So how would Kobe be MVP of the league when he isn't even the best player on his team? But That's why Shaq also didn't win MVP in those seasons... because he had Kobe.

when Shaq left, the lakers missed the playoffs the season after. Should Kobe really win the MVP when the lakers didn't even make the playoffs? No.

The 2 seasons after that, the lakers made the playoffs... but they only won 45 and 42 games in those seasons and finishing with the 7th seed in both of those seasons. Good enough to win MVP? No. Even if he did bring them there by himself.

The last 2 seasons, LBJ clearly deserved the MVP.

So when was kobe ever really robbed?


Subtract kobe off the lakers in those 45 win seasons and youll see how valuable..remember this isnt about stats..this is about how valuable he is.

Kobe didn't deserve MVP those seasons, period.

Take Wade off the heat the past few years, and the heat don't make the playoffs. So was he robbed? Was Tmac robbed on the magic? was pierce robbed? were a shit load of other players robbed?

if you wanna go by your logic, 2-3 players are robbed every single season.

a guy on a 7th seed team should not win MVP.

Isn't it entirely possible someone HAS been more deserving based off differing opinions every year? I think you're forgetting that not everyone maintains the same idea of MVP. I think I'm closer to group-think on it than most, but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that the voters might make the wrong decision a lot. You're throwing out the possibility on the basis of pretty much "just because." Maybe Wade did deserve some more consideration. Maybe TMAC did too. Maybe Kobe did deserve the MVP in that season or seasons. There's a lot that goes into the idea of MVP, even if the voters have pretty much defined their requirements, its still very possible their definition isn't very good.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:49 am

Yo Adrien! wrote:
even if the voters have pretty much defined their requirements, its still very possible their definition isn't very good.

They have a pretty simple way of voting for MVP. They go based off of the following things:

Who is more famous
Who they like more
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:12 am

i vote d.rose
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:34 pm

Yo Adrien! wrote:
Isn't it entirely possible someone HAS been more deserving based off differing opinions every year? I think you're forgetting that not everyone maintains the same idea of MVP. I think I'm closer to group-think on it than most, but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that the voters might make the wrong decision a lot. You're throwing out the possibility on the basis of pretty much "just because." Maybe Wade did deserve some more consideration. Maybe TMAC did too. Maybe Kobe did deserve the MVP in that season or seasons. There's a lot that goes into the idea of MVP, even if the voters have pretty much defined their requirements, its still very possible their definition isn't very good.

Since 1980, only once has there been a player that won MVP who was on a team that wasn’t at least the 3rd seed in their conference. That was Moses Malone in the 1981-1982 season when the Rockets had the 6th seed. But their record matched the Nuggets record… and they were the 4th seed. The second seed in the west that season was the spurs who had only 2 more wins than the Rockets.

Also, 24 of the last 31 MVPs have finished 1st in their conference. The average finish in that time period is 1.4.

So one thing that has been consistent over the years when it comes to MVP voting is that the MVP has to be on a top team. Kobe was not on a top team in those seasons that people say he was robbed of an MVP. And over that time period, there has been a lot of players that carried a bad team to the playoffs. Sometimes it happened 3 times in 1 season. If those players before Kobe never got MVP in those seasons, why should he?

It just makes sense to look at the top teams and determine who is most valuable to their team.. and that’s your MVP. How they determine who is most valuable of the top teams is up to them.

The only people who ever really bitch about players getting robbed are the fans of the players who didn't win MVP. Every year there's at least 2 guys that get robbed accoring to fans....
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:20 pm

Bulls N' Bears wrote:
Yo Adrien! wrote:
Isn't it entirely possible someone HAS been more deserving based off differing opinions every year? I think you're forgetting that not everyone maintains the same idea of MVP. I think I'm closer to group-think on it than most, but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that the voters might make the wrong decision a lot. You're throwing out the possibility on the basis of pretty much "just because." Maybe Wade did deserve some more consideration. Maybe TMAC did too. Maybe Kobe did deserve the MVP in that season or seasons. There's a lot that goes into the idea of MVP, even if the voters have pretty much defined their requirements, its still very possible their definition isn't very good.

Since 1980, only once has there been a player that won MVP who was on a team that wasn’t at least the 3rd seed in their conference. That was Moses Malone in the 1981-1982 season when the Rockets had the 6th seed. But their record matched the Nuggets record… and they were the 4th seed. The second seed in the west that season was the spurs who had only 2 more wins than the Rockets.

Also, 24 of the last 31 MVPs have finished 1st in their conference. The average finish in that time period is 1.4.

So one thing that has been consistent over the years when it comes to MVP voting is that the MVP has to be on a top team. Kobe was not on a top team in those seasons that people say he was robbed of an MVP. And over that time period, there has been a lot of players that carried a bad team to the playoffs. Sometimes it happened 3 times in 1 season. If those players before Kobe never got MVP in those seasons, why should he?

It just makes sense to look at the top teams and determine who is most valuable to their team.. and that’s your MVP. How they determine who is most valuable of the top teams is up to them.

The only people who ever really bitch about players getting robbed are the fans of the players who didn't win MVP. Every year there's at least 2 guys that get robbed accoring to fans....

I agree with you now.Mabey i was just bias about kobe..kobe wll only have one mvp..but with all that said:
He did not get robbed.and derrck rose is mvp
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:14 pm

Rondo got robbed too. FAGS.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:37 pm

John wrote:
Bulls N' Bears wrote:
Yo Adrien! wrote:
Isn't it entirely possible someone HAS been more deserving based off differing opinions every year? I think you're forgetting that not everyone maintains the same idea of MVP. I think I'm closer to group-think on it than most, but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that the voters might make the wrong decision a lot. You're throwing out the possibility on the basis of pretty much "just because." Maybe Wade did deserve some more consideration. Maybe TMAC did too. Maybe Kobe did deserve the MVP in that season or seasons. There's a lot that goes into the idea of MVP, even if the voters have pretty much defined their requirements, its still very possible their definition isn't very good.

Since 1980, only once has there been a player that won MVP who was on a team that wasn’t at least the 3rd seed in their conference. That was Moses Malone in the 1981-1982 season when the Rockets had the 6th seed. But their record matched the Nuggets record… and they were the 4th seed. The second seed in the west that season was the spurs who had only 2 more wins than the Rockets.

Also, 24 of the last 31 MVPs have finished 1st in their conference. The average finish in that time period is 1.4.

So one thing that has been consistent over the years when it comes to MVP voting is that the MVP has to be on a top team. Kobe was not on a top team in those seasons that people say he was robbed of an MVP. And over that time period, there has been a lot of players that carried a bad team to the playoffs. Sometimes it happened 3 times in 1 season. If those players before Kobe never got MVP in those seasons, why should he?

It just makes sense to look at the top teams and determine who is most valuable to their team.. and that’s your MVP. How they determine who is most valuable of the top teams is up to them.

The only people who ever really bitch about players getting robbed are the fans of the players who didn't win MVP. Every year there's at least 2 guys that get robbed accoring to fans....

I agree with you now.Mabey i was just bias about kobe..kobe wll only have one mvp..but with all that said:
He did not get robbed.and derrck rose is mvp
Don't ever just fold like that..makes u look stupid..
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:29 pm

it's better than him trying to keep arguing that Kobe was robbed when he wasn't.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:47 pm

True..then Republicans and democrats both would bow down...But in that case john could have made an argument that kobe was robbed. Not all arguments have to have a conclusion..but at least try lol
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:32 am

Bulls N' Bears wrote:
Yo Adrien! wrote:
Isn't it entirely possible someone HAS been more deserving based off differing opinions every year? I think you're forgetting that not everyone maintains the same idea of MVP. I think I'm closer to group-think on it than most, but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that the voters might make the wrong decision a lot. You're throwing out the possibility on the basis of pretty much "just because." Maybe Wade did deserve some more consideration. Maybe TMAC did too. Maybe Kobe did deserve the MVP in that season or seasons. There's a lot that goes into the idea of MVP, even if the voters have pretty much defined their requirements, its still very possible their definition isn't very good.

Since 1980, only once has there been a player that won MVP who was on a team that wasn’t at least the 3rd seed in their conference. That was Moses Malone in the 1981-1982 season when the Rockets had the 6th seed. But their record matched the Nuggets record… and they were the 4th seed. The second seed in the west that season was the spurs who had only 2 more wins than the Rockets.

Also, 24 of the last 31 MVPs have finished 1st in their conference. The average finish in that time period is 1.4.

So one thing that has been consistent over the years when it comes to MVP voting is that the MVP has to be on a top team. Kobe was not on a top team in those seasons that people say he was robbed of an MVP. And over that time period, there has been a lot of players that carried a bad team to the playoffs. Sometimes it happened 3 times in 1 season. If those players before Kobe never got MVP in those seasons, why should he?

It just makes sense to look at the top teams and determine who is most valuable to their team.. and that’s your MVP. How they determine who is most valuable of the top teams is up to them.

The only people who ever really bitch about players getting robbed are the fans of the players who didn't win MVP. Every year there's at least 2 guys that get robbed accoring to fans....

You didn't get my point. Maybe the definition is WRONG. That's what I was saying.

The last thing, though. How many people argued CP3 over Kobe in 07-08? There definitely aren't that many New Orleans fans, lol. How about When Iverson won it? A ton of people thought it should have went to Shaq. It's not always just fans of one team that think someone else should get it. There's always a legit argument for a few of the other guys who are deserving. Sometimes a player who truly was the most valuable to his team is left out of the race because his team doesn't have enough wins. Just because it's been that way for a long time doesn't mean it's necessarily right.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:38 am

Jesus jr. wrote:
True..then Republicans and democrats both would bow down...But in that case john could have made an argument that kobe was robbed. Not all arguments have to have a conclusion..but at least try lol

I dont care if it makes me llok stupid..im not here to make a rep or something..i got proven wrong so be it..im just here to talk ball and learn..i can argue..
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:33 pm

Yo Adrien! wrote:

You didn't get my point. Maybe the definition is WRONG. That's what I was saying.

The last thing, though. How many people argued CP3 over Kobe in 07-08? There definitely aren't that many New Orleans fans, lol. How about When Iverson won it? A ton of people thought it should have went to Shaq. It's not always just fans of one team that think someone else should get it. There's always a legit argument for a few of the other guys who are deserving. Sometimes a player who truly was the most valuable to his team is left out of the race because his team doesn't have enough wins. Just because it's been that way for a long time doesn't mean it's necessarily right.

Maybe the definition is wrong to YOU. Most people would agree that the MVP should go to a player who is playing on one of the best teams.

"There definitely aren't that many New Orleans fans,"

You don't have to be a hornets fan if you're a chris paul fan.

"How about When Iverson won it? A ton of people thought it should have went to Shaq"

I don't remember a TON of people thinking Shaq should have won it. And if a lot of people did think Shaq should have won it, they don't know how to evaluate a players value. AI led he sixers to the #1 seed in the East. He averaged 31 PPG... second on the team was 12 PPG. Yes, overall the sixers had a great D and that's a big reason why they finished 1st... but the Lakers finished 2nd in the West and Shaq had kobe who averaged 28 PPG that season and was a big reason for the lakers success that season. And Shaq finished 3rd in voting that season... because Duncan led the spurs to the first seed in the West and was clearly the best player on the Spurs.

"Sometimes a player who truly was the most valuable to his team is left out of the race because his team doesn't have enough wins."

A lot of teams have a player who is truly the most valuable on the team.... doesn't mean those players should be considered MVP of the league. Here's an example of why those players shouldn't win MVP.

Last season, THAT player was Wade. He carried the Heat to the playoffs.. and the 5th seed. Without him, they easily would have missed the playoffs and may not have won more than 30 games. But the heat were 17-27 against teams above .500 and 30-8 against teams below .500. Of there 17 wins against teams above .500, only 9 of them were against the top 8 teams in the league.

I would want the MVP of the league to actually beat the best teams in the league. Not beat up on all the shitty teams.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:39 pm

I don;t think most vauble should go to only a player who is on a good team. Because a team like chicago without d.rose can win 40 games. But if you took Blake griffin or john wall off of there teams, their teams to subtract fosure...
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:48 pm

Jesus jr. wrote:
I don;t think most vauble should go to only a player who is on a good team. Because a team like chicago without d.rose can win 40 games. But if you took Blake griffin or john wall off of there teams, their teams to subtract fosure...

Actually I agree.

The clippers have 29 wins.. and Griffin is clearly their best player.. take him off LAC and they have about 12 wins at this point.. that's a 17 game difference.

So... Blake griffin for MVP!

........... but being serious now...

"Because a team like chicago without d.rose can win 40 games."

yeah probably.. but that's assuming that everyone else stays healthy. If rose didn't pay a single game this season and Boozer/Noah still missed the amount of games they missed this season, the Bulls probably wouldn't have a playoff spot now. And if we did, it would be the 8th seed.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:47 pm

Bulls N' Bears wrote:
Jesus jr. wrote:
I don;t think most vauble should go to only a player who is on a good team. Because a team like chicago without d.rose can win 40 games. But if you took Blake griffin or john wall off of there teams, their teams to subtract fosure...

Actually I agree.

The clippers have 29 wins.. and Griffin is clearly their best player.. take him off LAC and they have about 12 wins at this point.. that's a 17 game difference.

So... Blake griffin for MVP!

........... but being serious now...

"Because a team like chicago without d.rose can win 40 games."

yeah probably.. but that's assuming that everyone else stays healthy. If rose didn't pay a single game this season and Boozer/Noah still missed the amount of games they missed this season, the Bulls probably wouldn't have a playoff spot now. And if we did, it would be the 8th seed.

The media has given Derrick Rose the MVP Dirk Nowitzki deserves.
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PostSubject: Re: NBA MVP: Who's deserving?   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:57 pm

Thats true..maybe not the dirk part but the media controls everything...
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